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Hand (non light) weapon builds are top tier garbage.

sebaba001

New Member
Joined
09/09/2020
Messages
3
The weapons themselves are cool. There's a big issue though, why would anyone prefer a hand weapon over a light weapon, when the DPS is inferior and STR doesn't provide armor like AGI does? Plus being able to use ranged weapons. The only reason someone would chose hand weapons is because they have an exclusive skill (only for warriors, so rogues are a no go here), and that special skill for which you ruin your build, casually is the worst garbage passive skill in the game:

There are many cool looking and named hand weapons in the game, lots of variety and fun. Would be cool if they could be used in a non-garbage build, maybe just re-do infantry training? Who the hell is worried about enemy criticals??? And it only negates HALF of them??? (if you don't get rng'ed) Everyone runs stun immune items... If Infantry Training is redone to boost damage or boost your own criticals then suddenly there are viable builds for these items, otherwise everyone is either gonna run light weapons or big ass axes and greatswords.

Love the game btw great work.
 

VDX_360

Staff member
Moderator
Joined
20/01/2017
Messages
2,619
Welcome to the Forum.

After reading your post a few times, it seems your feedback is limited to seeking improvements to Infantry Training rather than a wider review of 1-Hand weapons as a category. You're not alone. There's a long standing debate about if Infantry Training is still viable in the game, a recent one is here.

So far, Infantry Training is holding it's own as a viable skill given the totality of the game's mechanics. I can personally see a slight benefit if given Infantry Training a tiny damage / armor boost but that's my bias not fully supported by the actual math.

And while the actual math based on effective game play, damage received in actual dungeon running supports Infantry Training being a viable skill, it lacks the same appeal as other advanced skills. It's just not a sexy skill. Think of it as the mini-van of warrior skills.

Agility based warriors (Light Weapons) have beaten the game and completed all the current content. It's doable. But, they struggle compared to their 1-H and 2-H counterparts. The performance gap is greater as game difficulty increase. Keep in mind that Damage Per Second (DPS) is only raw damage, not including enemy resistance and enemy armor.

For warriors, Actual Damage for 1-H weapons is often higher than Actual Damage for Light weapons. Of course this depends on a lot of the enemy / dungeon at play, and skill sets. It's not uncommon for Griss, the warrior Companion to be set up as a Light Weapon user early in the game, even if the main character is set up as 1-H, or 2-H warrior.

You answer your own question about Critical Hits. "Who the hell is worried about enemy criticals... if you don't get rng'ed." I don't worry about rain on cloudless days, either. If you negate bad luck in the RNG, than traps, loot drops and Rumor Boss spawns are also all moot..... But I digress. In most fights, Critical Hits are easily overlooked in the combat log. And the game's Critical Hits mechanics isn't the most terrifying thing on the planet, critical hit damage from enemies is there and has a measurable impact on game play, even if it seems to happen in an invisible manner. Again, higher difficulties of the game see this as a more present issue.
 

stonedwolf

Loreseeker
Joined
06/02/2019
Messages
269
The easiest way of rebalancing Infantry Training (IMO) whilst keeping in the theme of "only new stuff" for the up-coming content is to ADD SOME REALLY BOSS NECK ITEMS!!

That way it'll be worth giving up the Amulet of Dark Whispers. At the moment only Flame Pendant is halfway worthy, and it's completely situational - or just chug some potions. Yes, Rogues will still be rubbish with Hand weapons compared to Light, but you know what? Warriors are useless with Bows compared to Rogues. Not every class and combination has to be equally powerful. Rogues are Bow & Light. That's their thing.

VDX makes some good points about overcoming armor (let alone armor & shield) resistance and how not all DPS is equal, but it does seem silly to have "the most obvious to wear" neck-slot item take the wind out of so much of the Warrior skillset (Clerics get a ring, Rogues get a Scarf).

So a really boss WARRIOR ONLY neck item would fix this without needing to rejig fundamental skills.
 

sebaba001

New Member
Joined
09/09/2020
Messages
3
Thanks for the replies guys. I was not aware hand weapon warrior build hit harder than light, when I tested it I felt I was a teletubbie and had to switch to 2hand and had a much better time.

I agree with stonedwolf that a better neck equipment for warriors would help... there's gotta be a payoff somewhere. 'Royal infantry necklace' even, suited for infantry specifically? I feel it's a not rewarding build at all.
 

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