Grim Reaper Suggests Changing Regeneration System

Grim Reaper

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So i started playing Grim's Dawn yesterday and i was really astonished by thow they made health regen... And since EK's health regen system is pretty bad and i think that there should be a change to it let me suggest 1 Grim Dawn's 1 since i think it would fit in perfectly... I will send u a printscreen to speed this up, cuz i do not have much time now.

i hope this pretty much covers for any possible questions about this system... Also i would like to hear from u david what do u think about this :p
 

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Alan_SP

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Re: Health Regen

Well, if you look it from your position where you're looking for best health regen, the best would be ... you're immortal. :D

On the other hand, you should know a bit of history behind health regen as it is now. At first EK didn't had any health regen as by design. After a long time that many users asked for it, David made a compromise between his vision and what people asked. And only for easiest level.

That is the reason why health regen is as it is now.

Now that you know history, you're free to ask for whatever health regen. It is for David to decide if he's willing to sacrifice his vision what EK should be even more.
 

VDX_360

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Re: Health Regen

Grim Reaper has previously posted his or her personal dislike for the current health regeneration system for casual level of difficulty. This post adds nothing new to that discussion.

I personally think the health regeneration system should be removed completely. In the absence of that option, I would vote against making the health regen system so extreme to essentially grant immortality to the player, which in substance has been Grim Reaper's stated goal.

Dying is part of the game. Making players immortal reduces the game to mere button pushing.

Also Edit note: Changed the tittle of the thread to better reflect the nature of the thread.
 

Grim Reaper

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Re: Health Regen

VDX_360":txpft0n0 said:
Grim Reaper has previously posted his or her personal dislike for the current health regeneration system for casual level of difficulty. This post adds nothing new to that discussion.

I personally think the health regeneration system should be removed completely. In the absence of that option, I would vote against making the health regen system so extreme to essentially grant immortality to the player, which in substance has been Grim Reaper's stated goal.

Dying is part of the game. Making players immortal reduces the game to mere button pushing.

Also Edit note: Changed the tittle of the thread to better reflect the nature of the thread.

how does that make a player immortal? and why would that be my goal?
 

Denzera

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Re: Health Regen

VDX_360":2oq34ca5 said:
Grim Reaper has previously posted his or her personal dislike for the current health regeneration system for casual level of difficulty. This post adds nothing new to that discussion.

I think that's pretty uncharitable to someone who's thinking about this bearing David's goals in mind. Allow me to lend him some support in a more fleshed-out argument.

When I took classes on game design in college, one of the things they emphasized as part of the aesthetics you always wanted to focus on was the concept of Agency: the idea that the fate of the character is in the player's own hands, and they can guide things for good or for ill. Random acts of god, or design, that the player can't control or prevent, get really frustrating unless they're explicitly plot points. Nothing is more frustrating than taking the equivalent of a rail gun shot where you never had a chance.

So through that lens, some aspects of this game are genius: e.g., yeah, there are traps laid out some places, but they make sense based on where you are or what enemies are around, and you can detect them if you invest in that skill. Or, OK yeah you wandered directly from a very low level area (NW Sagar) into the Crimson Hills and got absolutely demolished when you stumbled onto a Hill Giant -- but you can save, often! and now you know not to do that. Come back later? Fair enough, you think. My favorite example is how you can pay to re-do your traits and skills, rather than have to start a new character from scratch; tremendous feelings of agency, and "Frustration savings".

It adds to players' feelings of Agency when they think of their remaining health and restoration as resources they can manage and make decisions about. I *like* the aesthetic that if I'm trying to clear a dungeon, I damn well better be prepared to make it to the dungeon, all the way through, and maybe all the way back to town, with what health I can muster from good fighting tactics, restores, and if necessary, potions. And I can't save in the dungeon. That's a challenge, one with known parameters, and regeneration would kind of trivialize it.

On the other hand, feeling an obligation to go to a town and sleep when I'm only down a few HP, or where a hireling is getting shellacked but I'm fully healed and the only way I can heal her is to use up a Restore, is quite annoying. If I'm outside of a dungeon, I can already save whenever, I can teleport whenever, so running out of health is a "risk" in theory only. There's no game-driven challenge posed to me. The only effect of not offering regeneration there is to frustrate me and waste my time.

I think a reasonable compromise would be:

- Very slow regeneration, perhaps scaled to your END score, occurring only in the overworld. Perhaps it only kicks in starting with END = 3 or 4.
- Combat, even in the overworld, pauses regeneration. If I'm clearing or exploring a new area, regen isn't going to help me get through it. It's going to help me deal with slight injuries from lower areas on the longer treks between towns.
- Hirelings regen too, at a low but nonzero rate

I don't think that would destroy the dynamic that David is trying to create, but it would reduce frustration that saps players' feelings of agency.
 

Grim Reaper

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anyhow, now i have way more time than i did when i was making this post...

So let me explain how would constitution work in EK in my head... Firstly i would drop recovery as an option, and make constitution, which is a way more easily adapted in online version, when it comes out... Besides constitution there should be spirit for mages and clerics... It would scale exactly the same, tho it would scale on mana instead of hp.

Now how it would scale... In casual constitution would have 200 points, in normal it would have 100 points and on hard it would have 50 points. That would make hard and normal have a bit harder start then it did, and it would be kinda same for casual... sleeping 6h would heal all ur hp+50% of ur constitution and spirit, and sleeping 12h it would heal both to 100%.

Recovery skill as it is now would be an issue tho... i suggest making it give 50% of current constitution and spirit more after sleeping per level. Besides that to make it a lil bit easier for casual, and to make it about same for hard and normal than it currently is i would add some items which would rise constitution and spirit, and i would make endurance rise 5% cons per lvl, str 5% per every 2 lvls. Int would rise 5% spirit for mages, and every 2 point would rise 5% for clerics... Personality would be opposite. Besides that u can add some quite rare drops which can drop by anybody(always drop by bosses) that regens 50% of ur overall constitution when u walk over them...


VDX_360":ex66cqqu said:
I personally think the health regeneration system should be removed completely. In the absence of that option, I would vote against making the health regen system so extreme to essentially grant immortality to the player, which in substance has been Grim Reaper's stated goal.

I do not remember of stating that i wanna grant immortality to players and i want to have such a system implemented. i would personally love if mobs were a lil bit harder with an actual regeneration system... so i am trying my best to find a gud 1 which would fit with current mechanics and change them as little as possible...

VDX_360":ex66cqqu said:
Grim Reaper has previously posted his or her personal dislike for the current health regeneration system for casual level of difficulty. This post adds nothing new to that discussion.

ye, it does, that is why i made a different post about it.
 

VDX_360

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Grim Reaper":2jaf8ym8 said:
...Firstly i would drop recovery as an option, and make constitution, which is a way more easily adapted in online version, when it comes out... Besides constitution there should be spirit for mages and clerics... It would scale exactly the same, tho it would scale on mana instead of hp.
What you propose is an entire ground floor overall of the game, a completely unrealistic idea at this point.

Grim Reaper's dislike for the Regeneration ability is noted.
 

Grim Reaper

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VDX_360":196nuyed said:
What you propose is an entire ground floor overall of the game, a completely unrealistic idea at this point.

Grim Reaper's dislike for the Regeneration ability is noted.

Ty for being salty. And i ain't proposing that... tho when online option comes, if it does, that would need to happen...
 

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