DPS is not everything.

VDX_360

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Flurry gives the highest damage bonus of any skill. That 75% increase in speed is no joke.

While AGL Rogue builds benefit the most, there's been some interesting results with 2-H warriors using flurry.

It makes for an odd build design but it can work.

For warriors, the downside is that the 20 second cool down leaves you flat for a bit. Rouges that are kiting while Evasion cool downs aren't that impacted. But toe-to-toe melee fighters might feel naked for a bit. The plus side is the 6 AGL is going give you some extra defense.

Obviously, superbuilds can break the game with insane traits across the board.
 

stonedwolf

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Flurry gives the highest damage bonus of any skill. That 75% increase in speed is no joke.

For warriors, the downside is that the 20 second cool down leaves you flat for a bit.

This is why I want it tested. Yes the 75% for 6 seconds is no joke. But that damage bonus has to be averaged over 26 seconds whereas those Traits and Skills into STR and a different SKILL (e.g. Heavyhand) and add that up over the course of 26 seconds.

PS yes the AGI gives you more Defence but the quid-pro-quo on that is by lowering STR or END you have way fewer HP via Body Development.
 

Neponde

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This is why I want it tested. Yes the 75% for 6 seconds is no joke. But that damage bonus has to be averaged over 26 seconds whereas those Traits and Skills into STR and a different SKILL (e.g. Heavyhand) and add that up over the course of 26 seconds.

PS yes the AGI gives you more Defence but the quid-pro-quo on that is by lowering STR or END you have way fewer HP via Body Development.
In gameplay, though, how realistic is it that you are going to be battling an enemy for 26 seconds straight? A handful.of greater dragons and demons?

I mean, theoretically, you can power through a small horde in 26 seconds, but I would hazard a guess that most hordes you can sustain a battle with for that duration are weak enough to not be a threat anyways
 

VDX_360

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Flurry 2H Warrior builds have beaten the completed the game on Hard.

Adding Flurry late game isn't so bad if you stockpile the skill points. In the late-game it's pretty easy to have a lot of trait points to raise AGL to 6.

Adding Flurry early game is awkward as it requires a hefty trait and skill point investment that takes away from other crucial areas.

Adding Flurry mid-game-ish is pretty solid. You can still invest in other traits and skills to make a decent 2H monster, and still get the Flurry boost for mid-game baddies that are a little tougher.

Getting the high AGL needed for Flurry helps with traps, something warriors are prone to need.

By end game, the few defense points aren't that big of a deal given end game armor and end game hitpoints.

Flurry doesn't dovetail prefectly with a Whirlwind + Charge combo but it can be worked it effectively.

I -think- the biggest aspect of the Flurry 2H Warrior isn't so much if it's viable, but it add an awkwardness to a build category that doesn't need it.
 

Kakost

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A full 21 Trait points to AGI to get Flurry is a heavy investment.
Well, my warrior is always 1H shield, I see everybody talking about how powerful 2H is, but I found out that to me my best defense is more defense, and I love the shields, and I believe my 1H to be overpowered as hell, while with 2H I was constantly afraid for my life. See, that's what I (and several others) always talk about playstyle.

It may be also because I ALWAYS use Charge and Whirlwind and Bash; that gives me insane amounts of "crowd control" which hugely increases my survivability and allows me to dispose of enemies unmolested, so perhaps that's why I havent felt the need for the massive damage offered by 2H style.

But hey, once again, that's an individual tasye
 

stonedwolf

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Warrior Sword & Board is righteous. 2H requires 6 Skill points spent on it, non-optional. Shield Expert is optional, perhaps more useful slightly later on (Castle Bluerock resistance) but even then, half the 2HE points. But Warriors get great active fight skills from the start: Charge, Bash, Whirlwind, Cleave. Those early points 2H have to spend give S&B a good headstart elsewhere.
 

Kakost

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Getting the high AGL needed for Flurry helps with traps, something warriors are prone to need.
I have a small nitpick with this thou.

I do not think AGI helps with traps; I do agree that traps are a scourge to my warrior, but AGI only helps to disarm them, but that's not usually the problem; save for a few that stand right in the only passage (like behind a door), most traps can just simply be avoided.

The problem with traps is about detecting them, to which you need primarily AWA and secondary INT, both of which are pretty much useless to a warrior outside of that one use - or for having important Trait Checks during dialogs.

That's in fact one of the reasons why I think Mages are so OP, because they are so round up and every single Trait is so useful to them, there's no waste nor is there "do I dump a ton of points on Int or Awa just for that quest dialog check?".

For an Archer Rogue, AWA is slighthly better, but for Warrior or Melee Rogue, almost useless except under those situations, so it becomes a lot harder to decide to put points in it.

Likewise, getting Flurry for Warrior is a heavy commitment, given that it means considerably less HP for Body Dev.

That being said thou, it is entirely feasible late game - heck, probably even a more effective option for late game - considering the "trait inflation" of trying to keep up main traits (STR and END) under extreme high levels, thus at a certain point it is more beneficial indeed to get that 75% att speed rather than keeping trying to increase STR and END
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Warrior Sword & Board is righteous. 2H requires 6 Skill points spent on it, non-optional. Shield Expert is optional, perhaps more useful slightly later on (Castle Bluerock resistance) but even then, half the 2HE points. But Warriors get great active fight skills from the start: Charge, Bash, Whirlwind, Cleave. Those early points 2H have to spend give S&B a good headstart elsewhere.
This, right here. For people that believe that warrior is "all the same", that is, when they compare how Mages can be built as Arcane Knights or Elementalists or Summoners, and how Rogues can either be "Assassins" or Archers and how Clerics can be either more "Cleric-ish" or a sort of "Paladin" build (AKA the most common "Church of the Three" or "Warriors Guild Cleric" types), and they say "oh, Warriors are all the same playstyle basically, it's just a matter of more defense (S&B) or more attack (2H)", I think people completely ignore just how actually fundamentally different those playstyles actually are - heck, this will even be reflected on Traits too; I found that with a S&B it's much much easier (and effective) to have a more balanced distribution of Traits than 2H, which has a massive need for STR and END that S&B doesnt have that much (still preferable, but not as mandatory). The way you play both is also severely different.

Damn, now I wish we can come up with better names for those builds, particularly because EK is the first game ever that I loved Warriors just as much as Mages... Calling it "Sword and Shield" and "2H" is lame... It would be cool if it were something like "Guardian" or "Defender" or "Protector" Warrior and "Destroyer" Warrior or something like it.
 
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VDX_360

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I was under the slight impression that AGL also gave a chance to dodge a trap?
You know when the trap graphic appears, and you take no damage, not even a note in the combat log?

Am I just crazy?
 

VDX_360

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....I wish we can come up with better names for those builds ... "Sword and Shield" and "2H" is lame...

Clarity in terms trumps coolness.
Exiled Kingdom is played around the world with lots of different players.
Thus it's far more useful for the terms for builds to be concise, accurate and not prone to subjective assessments.
Call it what it is.

Besides, the terms you proposed seem more suited to the PLAYING STLE and ROLE than actual build.

Example, Calling Griss a "1-H and Shield Build" is pretty clear on her general set-up. Saying you're using her as a "Protector" might communicate how you're using her, or some of her skills (defensive skills over offensive skills).

Someone once tried to come up with a lot of tittles for all the various builds variations. It was chaotic, and not organic. So it didn't catch on.
 

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