Double Taps

Trasd

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With the (hard to get early on) Scrolls of Recall, I accidentally tapped mine twice and lost two scrolls on one recall.

I would like to see a double tap protection added so only one item is used when appropriate, like when an item takes a moment to activate, or it wouldn't make sense.
 

Azog

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I personally think that normal mode shouldnt be easier and hard mode should be harder. My first game was a warrior on normal until lvl 10, i only struggled at the beginning because of dont know what and how to do.
My second game was a rogue on normal until lvl 10, gameplay was too easy right from the beginning.
Third game i started today as a warrior on hard mode, actually lvl 7. And i really cannot see any big difference to normal mode so far, maybe the enemys live a mini bit longer, and traps dont really scare me. It also seems that there are not more traps as mentioned in the description for hard mode. Healing potions usage is the same like in normal mode, and mostly needed only for boss fights and sometimes because of traps. Thought that it would be harder, but it actually feels more like a speedrun without any big hindrance. And i am rather a casual gamer.
 

DavidBVal

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Trasd":2f0ut17b said:
Remember, your idea of fun isn't necessarily everyone else's! The more options David offers, the greater number of people will enjoy the game. One size does not fit all.

Very true, that's why I added difficulty levels. So let's put them to work here.

Trasd":2f0ut17b said:
David, no matter the solution, items (or item classes) should have their own cool-down period. Pots, scrolls, etc., at a minimum, should be on their own separate timers.

Not necessarily, and let me tell you why. Most classic RPGs work based in turns, which are basically an abstraction thats puts a finite limit on the amount of things you can do in X seconds. Usually, in most games, this equates to choosing one action per turn, or maybe two minor actions. Most of those games don't go into an additional layer of complexity about giving each spell a different casting time, or why it takes exactly the same time to drink a potion than swinging an axe; they just work that way. Because it is simpler to work with, and because it's easier to balance things that way.

Example, if all magical damage dealing items have the same 3-second delay, then I can have a clear idea of the DPS they deal, and see if they break an encounter or make a certain skill irrelevant. but if each item has a different cooldown (.5 seconds... .8 seconds... ) it grows extremely confusing, for encounter design, and for the players. Same with healing. By putting a 3 second limit, I know how much damage you can mitigate when you only have access to Cure Light Wounds potions, and therefore make sure a level 3 character that grinds for 8 hours can't kill a dragon, by drinking 7 potions per second.

Some people might think, "what do you care what some people do or if they grind 8 hours to kill a dragon?" Well, I do care. I see myself as a DM, it is my job to provide a balanced challenge to the game, and that sometimes means to put limits here or there. I will do it to the best of my ability. I will listen to each and every of my players' ideas and criticism. But ultimately I will have to make choices, because I sincerely believe a challenging environment is what makes this game different. Thinking strategies, kiting enemies, gaining time to use your items/ skills.

And grinding is fine, and shoudl bring rewards to those willing to spend the time on a grind, but there HAS to be a limit. And that limit is the balance of Risk vs Reward. When there is no risk, everything begins going south. And my data told me that, past level 5, people was stocking on potions and barely ever dying again, unlike in early levels. It's not what I was trying to achieve.

My first solution is the simplest. Make the cool-down period different for each difficulty level. For example: Normal - 1 second; Hard - 2 seconds; Iron Man - 3 seconds.

I will go for this one, because as I stated, I am thinking about item usage in terms of an action you take on a virtual "turn". I will start with the following. 2 seconds cooldown on normal, 3 on the others. And better potions (and soon alchemy) will be introduced, so spamming "lesser" potions will not be a viable technique in the mid-late levels, but you can time a few more powerful potions for a similar effect.

After that change, I'll look at the numbers from the player analytics, and I'll listen to new input. How does that sound?
 

DavidBVal

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Comm4nder":185qt8b3 said:
I personally think that normal mode shouldnt be easier and hard mode should be harder. My first game was a warrior on normal until lvl 10, i only struggled at the beginning because of dont know what and how to do.
My second game was a rogue on normal until lvl 10, gameplay was too easy right from the beginning.
Third game i started today as a warrior on hard mode, actually lvl 7. And i really cannot see any big difference to normal mode so far, maybe the enemys live a mini bit longer, and traps dont really scare me. It also seems that there are not more traps as mentioned in the description for hard mode. Healing potions usage is the same like in normal mode, and mostly needed only for boss fights and sometimes because of traps. Thought that it would be harder, but it actually feels more like a speedrun without any big hindrance. And i am rather a casual gamer.

Agreed that hard should be harder, and it will!

Valuable feedback, in line with my observed data. Thanks.

How much time played to reach level 7?
 

Azog

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7h50m. But wasnt ment as a speedrun and i also did mistake in the beginning. Lvl 7 surely is reachable in around 4 hours. Or faster, when exploiting the orc outpost. ;)
 

DavidBVal

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Comm4nder":22oa6lkq said:
7h50m. But wasnt ment as a speedrun and i also did mistake in the beginning. Lvl 7 surely is reachable in around 4 hours. Or faster, when exploiting the orc outpost. ;)

PM/email me about that exploit!
 

Trasd

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David.

Sounds good (though I need to see it in action). The only thing I want to say is that I must have goofed in my explanation because you're not the only one who didn't agree with each item having its own cool-down timer. I agree, too! I don't think each separate item should have it's own cool-down timer.

I think each class of item should have its own cool-down.

Pots should be on their own 2 second (for normal) timer. Scrolls should be on their own 2 second (for normal) timer, etc. Each item-class on a separate timer, IMHO. There aren't that many item-classes (2 or 3, right now).

Sorry I wasn't clearer on that.

EDITED:
David, also, please read my previous post. I don't think fighting should be the basis for all decisions. That post explains more.
 

DavidBVal

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Oh, I had entirely missed one of your posts, Trasd!

I see what you mean, and it makes sense from your point of view.

Maybe an "easy" or "story" mode is in order?
 

Trasd

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DavidBVal":2t2zarp7 said:
Oh, I had entirely missed one of your posts, Trasd!

I see what you mean, and it makes sense from your point of view.

Maybe an "easy" or "story" mode is in order?
Thanks again, David.

You seem to be putting a lot of effort into every aspect of the game and I do appreciate a good story (and when I'm in the mood, a good fight)!
 

VoidWalkerZ

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is there a way to have these turns disabled when not in combat?
Ie. You finish off a room have 17/189 hp left instead of taking 15s to drink 5 lesser healings you can just chug them down and then go to the next area. This would make it different than the spam heals durring combat because you would no longer be in combat
In a way "turns" are only counted when enemies becone agressive and a way to show this could be to in a since pause the game and have you click an action to continue (this could be done similar to bauldur's gate where you had a pause action and could designate targets for spells/attacks manually). Just an idea on the last part
Or there could be a proximity block where if an enemy is this much distance from you the timers on items is forced to take affect(even if unnoticed).
 

Alan_SP

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DavidBVal":cv2gvl6g said:
Maybe an "easy" or "story" mode is in order?
That was something I was thinking reading what's written here and what I achieved so far in the game (not that I have much time to play).

Easy mod, where you have to fight, but you don't die regularly as I now die (lvl 4).

We can discuss what easy mod would be elsewhere, but it could be something interesting for those who would love to live in EK world a bit longer. :D
 

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