Can't seem to decide - cleric agi vs str?

[terryberry]

Hi. I'm new to the game, playing my first character.
Currently a level 12 cleric, aiming for an agi build with warrior's guild: I currently have
4 str
2 end
4 agi
1 int
1 awa
3 per
with maxed out heavyhand and duel, and lvl2 precision strikes and massive criticals, as the screenies show.

Currently using an ancient fang that i farmed off a few levels back after some strugging.

This leads me to have: 20 armor, 30.1 dps at 14%crit.

While i was going for a pure agi build, I've recently(like, now) obtained the paladin's longsword. If i hold that with equal str / agi, i get a 1.3 dps increase, from 30.1 to 31.4.

This conflicts me; should i step up as a str warrior, since this beautiful weapon offers a hardly resisted form of damage, spirit? Or would the dps difference be mitigated by the faster duel buildup in daggers?


I've thought about using Iron golem fist too, but the water facility is too tough for me to do repeated runs right now, so I've put that off for the moment. (The strategy I used to farm ancient fang at lvl9, save & reload doesn't seem to work so well for the horrible fist drop rate)

Any feedback is appreciated.

 

[Unknown]

Personally I prefer the faster dagger gameplay - the faster attacks and higher crit makes general gameplay smoother and gives you a noticable boost in free instant kills from Massive Criticals.

For the future you might wanna consider getting Arbenos Might and Intervention skill, both are really strong. Duel III is a skill I'd actually only learn when theres nothing else you want, as Duel II offers the same bonus per hit and you rarely get more than 4 hits in before enmies die, making it a pure bossfight novelty.

Sheet dps Agi will be higher, while real dps should be rather similar depending on enemy armor. In the end its personal preference imo, both are viable. Strength is probably a bit better on bosses with the higher lifepool while Agi performs better when you're up against multiple enemies.

 

[Roukan]

I can't say for sure which is the best build, but here are some numbers for comparison.

It's just as Unknown said, AGI dagger should have the best DPS; but only when you factor in the additive increases such as Arbenos, Duel, or Heavyhand. Those flat additions to damage favor the higher speed of daggers.

When dealing with high armored enemies, consider damage per hit.

For DPS, AGI dagger > STR 1 hand > STR 2 hand
For DPH, STR 2 hand > STR 1 hand > AGI Dagger

About the Iron Golem Fist, it only really beats the Paladin's Longsword when dealing with Vorators, as far as I know.

 

[Roukan]

Oh, and one more thing. There's diminishing returns for trait points invested so you could also opt for a more mixed distribution. This way, you get the most returns per trait point invested, get a 2h option for decent DPH against armored targets, and a dagger option for DPS against low armor targets. Just something to consider.

 

[terryberry]

Personally I prefer the faster dagger gameplay - the faster attacks and higher crit makes general gameplay smoother and gives you a noticable boost in free instant kills from Massive Criticals.

For the future you might wanna consider getting Arbenos Might and Intervention skill, both are really strong. Duel III is a skill I'd actually only learn when theres nothing else you want, as Duel II offers the same bonus per hit and you rarely get more than 4 hits in before enmies die, making it a pure bossfight novelty.

Sheet dps Agi will be higher, while real dps should be rather similar depending on enemy armor. In the end its personal preference imo, both are viable. Strength is probably a bit better on bosses with the higher lifepool while Agi performs better when you're up against multiple enemies.

I guess that's what I should do, once I'm done hunting stuff that's over my level :O
Ought to reset my skills, since duel 3 does serve as a nice passive, it's actually weaker than a lvl1 AM..
Any suggestions where to get the mana potions? I'm already running low (always at like 1 or 0) of mana pots, when I only have heal as a mana spending spell

 

[terryberry]

I can't say for sure which is the best build, but here are some numbers for comparison.

It's just as Unknown said, AGI dagger should have the best DPS; but only when you factor in the additive increases such as Arbenos, Duel, or Heavyhand. Those flat additions to damage favor the higher speed of daggers.

When dealing with high armored enemies, consider damage per hit.

For DPS, AGI dagger > STR 1 hand > STR 2 hand
For DPH, STR 2 hand > STR 1 hand > AGI Dagger

About the Iron Golem Fist, it only really beats the Paladin's Longsword when dealing with Vorators, as far as I know.

Thanks for the amazingly sorted data!
Negligible difference in dps1 between str paladins / and agi ancient fang..
I guess the tables would suggest me to stick with either agi daggers, or str mauls.
Agi it is then!

I guess the paladin's longsword would be best held by hirge, not me :O

 

[Unknown]

Any suggestions where to get the mana potions? I'm already running low (always at like 1 or 0) of mana pots, when I only have heal as a mana spending spell

Personally I'm not a huge fan of the healing spell. It's heal per mana is weaker than what you get for a 3 point investment into Intervention III (3 points total, cost doesn't increase). I'm usually keeping my health up with some cheap 30 life potions on quickslot and reserve the mana for Arbenos Might which ultimately acts as a heal in itself as you kill stuff quicker, thus take less damage. I'll only spend mana to a degree where i have enough left to get a full heal from intervention, at 240 life that would be 30 mana I just don't touch.

Mana potions are reserved exclusively for tough boss fights as even the smallest mana potion is a 120 health heal with intervention, more than the best hp potions.
Unfortunately warrior guild passives are way too good, so buying mana potions isn't an option.

 

[terryberry]

Any suggestions where to get the mana potions? I'm already running low (always at like 1 or 0) of mana pots, when I only have heal as a mana spending spell

Personally I'm not a huge fan of the healing spell. It's heal per mana is weaker than what you get for a 3 point investment into Intervention III (3 points total, cost doesn't increase). I'm usually keeping my health up with some cheap 30 life potions on quickslot and reserve the mana for Arbenos Might which ultimately acts as a heal in itself as you kill stuff quicker, thus take less damage. I'll only spend mana to a degree where i have enough left to get a full heal from intervention, at 240 life that would be 30 mana I just don't touch.

Mana potions are reserved exclusively for tough boss fights as even the smallest mana potion is a 120 health heal with intervention, more than the best hp potions.
Unfortunately warrior guild passives are way too good, so buying mana potions isn't an option.

oh dang hadnt thought of it that way, to think of it it pretty much means unless u take 120damage in 3 seconds, you cant die, provided you havs mana pots...

So heal and AM until i get to full heal mana minimum, then fight, die, revive, use health, then full recovery, even while fighting grunts?

If i were to follow the build, I'm guessing taking away AM from hirge and maxing her heal first would be the best course of action.. right?

I need to reset my (and hirge's) skills and start hunting for mana pots immediately

 

[Roukan]

Yeah, I've got to agree with Unknown. Heal Wounds is slightly...underwhelming IMO. The high mana cost, cast delay, and 10 sec cool down makes it seem more like a compliment to potion heals, rather than the main source of healing.

Anyway, here's an alternative to consider. Alchemist Niisa in the New Garand Warrior's guild offers a 15% discount on Moderate Healing Potions. Since gold comes readily at your level, you could easily buy those potions in bulk and ditch the Heal Wounds skill entirely. You'd free up 6 more skill points and have more mana to use for more up time of Arbenos' Might.

Without a reliable source of mana potions from joining the Three, Heal Wounds can't serve as a cost-effective and unlimited resource. For sheer healing power in terms of health restored per second (for the tougher encounters where it matters), Heal Wounds loses out to the stronger types of healing potions. I unlearned Heal Wounds to free up skill points after joining the Warrior's guild; haven't regretted that decision.

 

[terryberry]

Yeah, I've got to agree with Unknown. Heal Wounds is slightly...underwhelming IMO. The high mana cost, cast delay, and 10 sec cool down makes it seem more like a compliment to potion heals, rather than the main source of healing.

Anyway, here's an alternative to consider. Alchemist Niisa in the New Garand Warrior's guild offers a 15% discount on Moderate Healing Potions. Since gold comes readily at your level, you could easily buy those potions in bulk and ditch the Heal Wounds skill entirely. You'd free up 6 more skill points and have more mana to use for more up time of Arbenos' Might.

Without a reliable source of mana potions from joining the Three, Heal Wounds can't serve as a cost-effective and unlimited resource. For sheer healing power in terms of health restored per second (for the tougher encounters where it matters), Heal Wounds loses out to the stronger types of healing potions. I unlearned Heal Wounds to free up skill points after joining the Warrior's guild; haven't regretted that decision.

took me a while to realize the only thing making me think heal is better.. is my unwillingness to rely on a supposed "finite", consumable item lol
have respecced, making myself the intervention full-out dps cleric, with hirge as the 0 dps healer all in per, int, and endurance.

Thanks for the help guys, doin much better