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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:14 am 
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This Is a strange topic to bring up.
I hope I can explain all this as clearly as I can. I am trying to write at some speed before I lose my thoughts and it all becomes disingenuous.

Basically, I'd just finished another crappy 12 hour shift at my job, and was getting the last tram home. I was dirty, very tired and fed up. Then some guy gets on and starts kicking off, I at first assumed he was on drugs, this is common on the last tram from the city center, but he was ranting about how everything's messed up in society (put simply). The whole tram could hear him. He was kind of aggressive but at the same time, civil, and only with words.

Then he started shouting "f**** you all!, you all only care bout yourselves!" all that stuff, you all know the narrative. So a few people jump in and start saying some stuff, I don't remember exactly but they're just trying to shut him down, one woman in particular calling him a "pleb" (slang for idiot almost) but he kept going for about 10 minutes straight saying "f*** the lot of ya!", he was getting louder and louder and more and more aggressive. Hes even pointing to where I'm sat shouting it.

After listening to it for ages I got up and walked over to him, nervous but angry, and quite determined, my words as I recall were "You cant say f*** you to me, I'm the same as you bro, I was born in (so and so location), I come from a very working class background and I bust my arse in a Kitchen... (my hand was on his shoulder) Your not better then anyone else..."

The guy doesn't really look at me but kind of looks past me, he tones his voice down yet still continues to rant, then my stop comes and I get off.
I am not embellishing this story, nor am I boasting. I was trembling like hell, more than any normal person I think, and I don't consider myself to be "cool" or by any means "macho" (not to give out too much personal info but I see myself as a kid.)

The point of all of this is this: I don't really feel pride In "standing up" to this guy, yes I was angry but I kind of did it just to prove to myself, or at least any observers that I wasn't a coward. I was angry, but at the same time I wasn't angry at him. I couldn't make up my mind whether he was right or wrong.

Today's social climate is definitely a mess, and working in the city Iv'e seen some bad situations and no-one has stood up for each other. One way I look at it is that when someone does starts kicking off everyone tries shutting them down. If this is the case then i have foolishly just fulfilled this role.

People don't like it when someone does kick off because they suddenly feel insecure about themselves, or that they resent someone taking the spotlight, or the order is upset. It is snitch-like behavior.

From this paradox in principles I often choose to not get involved In certain situations, but I can also see this as being counter-productive to a "good" society, of course a society must consist of the moral and the strong, and such indecisiveness and passivity is a weakness.

I can't really say much more, but If you can relate, or debate, unload it here, or share your own experiences.
Either way it feels good to get it off my chest.

Thank you!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:51 pm 
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First, I think that there's more and more unbalanced people in big cities (especially visible in public transportation, where we all are in some kind of trap, we can't get off till we get to station).

Second, I wouldn't take it personally.

Third, well, it could get much worse, there are some really dangerous types out there.

Fourth, speaking about taking action in general, yes, that is really uncertain and can go either way. It is interesting though how things go for some people better, but for some worse (like some people are really better suited for winners, some for loosers).

It's in short.

Oh yes, not to forget this "footnote" from you. I also see myself as I child. My father (he's 75) say he also sees himself still as a child. It is probably how we all see ourselves.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:57 am 
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Alan_SP wrote:
Oh yes, not to forget this "footnote" from you. I also see myself as I child. My father (he's 75) say he also sees himself still as a child. It is probably how we all see ourselves.


Me too, and even if I get 100 it won't change. That's nothing bad, it's good to keep a little child inside your mind, that way you can still enjoy the simple things in your life or change your perspective about something.

Ps: last year I was at a birthday party of a son of my friend, he got a Carrera. End of story, the male adults played with that toy nearly the whole night after he was sleeping :D

It was something like that


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:39 pm 
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Never losing the child that I was is very important to me; incidentally, playing games is one of the best ways to do it. Or making them. My childhood was marked by PnP RPGs, fantasy and sci-fi literature, after all.

Regarding confronting crazy people in public transportation... just don't if you can avoid it. It's not a matter of courage: some people's mind work on very strange parameters, and what is unexpected by you may very well happen. He may believe you are a demon in disguise and stab you, or something like that. You never know, be careful; if you absolutely must intervene, what you did sounds good, never getting violent or threatening.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:54 pm 
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DavidBVal wrote:
Regarding confronting crazy people in public transportation... just don't if you can avoid it. It's not a matter of courage: some people's mind work on very strange parameters, and what is unexpected by you may very well happen. He may believe you are a demon in disguise and stab you, or something like that. You never know, be careful; if you absolutely must intervene, what you did sounds good, never getting violent or threatening.


Most important in such a situation is to call 911 (or however the number in your country is) first, if you have to intervene, than put the call on speaker and describe the attacker as much as possible. That's enough to get them scared without have to get violent. And even if he attacks you, the police would know his description. But keep distance as much as you can, confrontation is not a solution, as long as you don't know how to do it. You have to be used to martial arts for that, but calling for help is never a wrong decision.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:10 pm 
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You are all right, of course, But I can say this guy wasn't particularly violent... like I said he was "Civil" and only with words.

For anyone reading this, please be certain that I do not encourage people to intervene in dangerous situations... yes, it is always the better option to keep your distance, and/or call the authorities.
Living in the Civil world you are unprepared to face the Uncivil, no matter how tough or courageous you think you are.

Life ain't no Movie or Videogame.

Thanks all.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:00 am 
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I think it all comes down to sacrifice. Sacrifice isn't just killing an animal to appease a deity but more of a principle of life. We knowingly or mostly unknowingly engage in sacrifices every day by the decisions we make and live with the consequences of our own individual actions.

We sacrifice courage for the benefit of safety but also may sometimes step in to diffuse a situation before it gets out of hand and reap the benefit of being brave (better self-esteem, slight increase in confidence in the future of similar situations etc.). Sometimes this works and other times it has disastrous results that in hindsight appear to be the wrong decision.


Hindsight is 20/20 but that doesn't help.

In your mentioned situation it most likely helped calm the guy some.
Example of how hindsight turns against - if you were stabbed by the guy who appeared to be only lobbing F- Bombs at everyone at one point in time. All we can go by is a person's words, body language, appearance and even senses such as smelling strong alcohol on breath, observing erratic behavior. We can't account for the unknown.

The situation can change in a heartbeat, especially when dealing with strangers on a train. Sometimes it is difficult to clearly see what is the most beneficial action for individual situations. This is all part of being human as we don't know all the factors involved.

Calling for Police on your mobile seems the safest option but also sometimes the police are not able to get to the incident waiting to happen in time so maybe one person quietly calls the cops while someone else tries talking the person down. But this requires teamwork among other strangers including yourself. Using calm, assertive, respectful language as hard as it is, it does mostly help diffuse situations.

But sadly sometimes the police are there looking for witnesses to a physical assault incident on the train and not to come to the "rescue".

This is why, to me, Superhero films are so boring - there are usually not any permanent consequences to the overpowered characters actions and everything is reset to normal again- it plays into a child-like worldview where the good guys always win and the good guys are clearly defined. One of my favourite TV shows was Breaking Bad - true good and bad results for actions by morally-grey characters (and unseen until too late what were good or bad decisions as they say:" the road to hell is paved with good intentions"). A wave of consequence up against the will of the characters. Shakespeare is the classic example of an author who knew that a good story depends on permanent results of actions.

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This is also why I find RPG fascinating, especially when permanent consequences are involved for our decisions in-game. Permadeath character mode is the hardcore version. Great games have such a hold on us as a form of art as they are interactive simulations of possible real-life situations and outcomes. (Obviously it may be a train ranter in real life and not a dragon that attacks).


They reward that part of our brain that is constantly accessing the environment and weighing up the best option for survival.

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Last edited by whitehawk on Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:01 am, edited 2 times in total.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:20 pm 
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whitehawk wrote:
This is why, to me, Superhero films are so boring - there are usually not any permanent consequences to the overpowered characters actions and everything is reset to normal again- it plays into a child-like worldview where the good guys always win and the good guys are clearly defined. One of my favourite TV shows was Breaking Bad - true good and bad results for actions by morally-grey characters (and unseen until too late what were good or bad decisions as they say:" the road to hell is paved with good intentions"). A wave of consequence up against the will of the characters. Shakespeare is the classic example of an author who knew that a good story depends on permanent results of actions.


Hancock is here a small exception, that movie is about a super hero and consequences (but still Hollywood style)

Yes Breaking Bad is awesome, I love that show.

But way better are Asian (specially Japanese) productions, it's way more complex. Fore example death note, one of my favorite Mangas (also available as anime), that story is way more complex with a lot of turns, so at some point there is no good or bad. Or ghost in the shell (not the Hollywood shit)

It's way better than Disney (marvel belong to Disney)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:15 am 
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p4ran0id wrote:
whitehawk wrote:
This is why, to me, Superhero films are so boring - there are usually not any permanent consequences to the overpowered characters actions and everything is reset to normal again- it plays into a child-like worldview where the good guys always win and the good guys are clearly defined. One of my favourite TV shows was Breaking Bad - true good and bad results for actions by morally-grey characters (and unseen until too late what were good or bad decisions as they say:" the road to hell is paved with good intentions"). A wave of consequence up against the will of the characters. Shakespeare is the classic example of an author who knew that a good story depends on permanent results of actions.


Hancock is here a small exception, that movie is about a super hero and consequences (but still Hollywood style)

Yes Breaking Bad is awesome, I love that show.

But way better are Asian (specially Japanese) productions, it's way more complex. Fore example death note, one of my favorite Mangas (also available as anime), that story is way more complex with a lot of turns, so at some point there is no good or bad. Or ghost in the shell (not the Hollywood shit)

It's way better than Disney (marvel belong to Disney)



Hancock started off really well but compromised for a Hollywood second half. I did enjoy Watchmen ( though love the comic much more. V for Vendetta comic was brilliant as well ).

It is a true shame that Disney are buying up all the franchises. The saccharine (yet under the surface truly cynical) world view of Disney is the exact opposite of what I look for in a story.

I feel I have missed out on some quite decent stories due to not getting into Japanese anime shows and films. I have watched a few - a great film that I thought was very well done was The Ninja Scroll. I watched that film ages ago.

A show I loved as a kid was the Mysterious Cities of Gold ( think it was a joint French/Japanese production.) The theme song was awesome :) and the story was well done - adventure style

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