Exiled Kingdoms

[Spoiler] Warrior Class: STR vs AGI Imbalancing
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Author:  Azog [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  [Spoiler] Warrior Class: STR vs AGI Imbalancing

This is only related to the actual balancing and the actual game contend (v.874). When reaching around lvl 10 character, you normally have done mostly everything from the game contend so far (except most of the town quests) and at this point everything runs easy, doesnt matter wich character you play. I dont know what is planned for future, regarding to higher levels.

With the actual balancing for warriors STR becomes useless, compared to AGI, because AGI makes the much more effective warrior. STR actually would only make sense when doing a two-handed fighter build for the extra damage, hand weapons with shield are pointless, compared to AGI based weapons with shield. But even a two-handed weapon build is actually totally underpowered, or its the AGI based warrior who is overpowered.

Let's simply compare:

A naked Warrior lvl 7, with 4 STR and 3 END, outmaxed twohanded skill, equipped with one oft the best greatswords, a Steelblue Greatsword:
- has +14hp through STR
- 0 armour
- does 16,65 dps
- 10% stun chance
- 3% crit
- cannot wear a shield

A naked Warrior lvl 7, with 4 AGI and 3 END, outmaxed shield skill, equipped with one of the best light weapons, a Magma Shortsword:
- has 4 armour
- wears a shield
- has +3 armour through shield skill
- has extra +4 armour against projectiles through shield skill
- gets extra armour through the shield itself, plus eventually hp and/or resistance
- does 15,95 dps
- 7% crit + faster atk speed = higher crit chance (= negates the 10% stun from the greatsword skill for me)
- 20% for handling traps/locks

Atk speed was calculated. Of course the Magma Shortsword has fire element, but this works for the very most enemys and you alternatively can take the Deathclaw, wich haves nearly the same dps and wich you get earlier. And of course with greatsword you increase more in dps because of the greatsword skill on every further STR upgrade, but after around 6 or 7 STR this is hard to achieve, unless you want to spend every single trait point into STR.

You could also build a hand weapon warrior using a shield, but on lvl 7 at the cost of 4 armour, 20% handling traps/locks, and all hand weapons i detected so far, do lower dps than the best light weapons.
You could also do a mixed build, wich ends in lower armour and more lower dps.

Warrior should be nerfed when using the AGI trait (like 2 AGI max), or the STR trait must become more opportunities.

Author:  DavidBVal [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [Spoiler] Warrior Class: STR vs AGI Imbalancing

Valuable input here. :geek:

I see your point, and I know this goes beyond itemization and mere DPS, AGI provides a lot of utility. but first thing that should be said here is, if you calculate based on Bluesteel GS, you should compare with Bluesteel dagger. the magma is probably the best weapon in the game right now, a tier above the rest, but matching longswords, and greatswords, and (soon!) axes will come.

I'll think more about this during the next days.

Author:  Azog [ Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [Spoiler] Warrior Class: STR vs AGI Imbalancing

Bluesteel dagger was my first choice for comparing, but i think it definitely isnt one of its best kind, like the greatsword actually.
Yes, please more greatswords! I still believe in a STR build.

Author:  Azog [ Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [Spoiler] Warrior Class: STR vs AGI Imbalancing

For completion, the Bluesteel Shortsword would have 11,4 dps ( -5,25 dps compared to the greatsword ), and the Deathclaw would have 13,2 dps ( -3,45 dps ).

Author:  Unknown [ Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [Spoiler] Warrior Class: STR vs AGI Imbalancing

Really got to disagree with you here. If anything 2hand strangth warriors need a nerf. Ofc you will have infinitely less armor compared to a shield 1hand build when you compare naked characters. Rest assured that the difference in proper endgame gear is completely negligible. My 2hand warrior is currently sitting at 16 armor at lvl 11. At that value your reduction rolls from 5-16, cant imagine it getting that much better/ more reliable with 20+ armor.

The thing is, tooltip dps and real dps are two completely different things with the way armor works in this game. Since it reduces by a flat amount slow weapons actually deal way more dps versus enemies that have at least some armor.

Now that we realized that, we can go seriously crazy with our warrior. Not only do 2hand weapons have insanely high base dmg compared to the available 1handers, thanks to our 2hand specialization we also get a much higher 2x dmg bonus from our strength mainstat, making our hits even bigger.

But wait, theres more. With our fury skill we can get up to 65% more damage while below 35% hp. With a base hp of close to 300 we get that bonus with still 100 life to play with, which is insane. Heck if you want to you can just use small potions to have the bonus up all the time. While in fury mode, my dps goes up from 24.5 to 37.9, with the average hit dealing enough damage to pretty much ignore armor on most enemies making them easy two-shots, with the largest endgame enemies like minotaurs and trolls taking 4 hits at most.

Did i mention, that it doesnt matter how many enemies you pull, since you hit them all? Its pretty overpowered to run into the orc fort, pull everything and kill all the elites in 3 swings...

And regarding armor as a defense - especially in later games you'll notice a lot of enemies dealing mostly elemental damage, armor wont do anything against that anyways, so its much better to kill stuff very fast, than to try and tank it.

The only situations in the game where i see an agi 1hand build ahead of str 2h is right at the start, where your base armor actually makes a significant difference and during the main quest, where at one point you dont have your gear available.

Author:  Unknown [ Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [Spoiler] Warrior Class: STR vs AGI Imbalancing

Also worth mentioning that you can always pop your resilience on bosses to become more tanky, while charge lets you easily double your damage, unlike rogues stab with an aoe effect, not just single target.

Author:  Eliadann [ Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [Spoiler] Warrior Class: STR vs AGI Imbalancing

I love this thread, but don´t understand what exactly is doing in "support". Should be in "Feedback" or "General".

Now, I think it makes no sense to compare traits based on builds using skills and gear (specially the second!). I agree that a two hander warrior buld is STR+END with no AGI at all, but you are forgetting one possible build for one handed warriors. You can actually create a one hander warrior with STR as primary trait, that will have more HP than an AGI warrior in exchange for less armor. DPS is a calculated stat, from damage and attack speed, so an AGI based warrior tends to have an inflated DPS than a warrior using one handers, simply because light weapons are quicker. As someone explains above, a higher DPS is not the only thing you need to look into, because enemies with medium to high armor might nulify this extra DPS.

It is important also to look into character advancement, and cost of raising traits. Even if you are focusing on AGI for armor and mastering light weapons, at some point you´ll raise your strenght at least until 4. Why? because it is cheaper than purchasing a single point in AGI once you hit AGI 6. For a character with AGI 9 and STR 0, the cost of raising AGI to to 10 is the same as raising STR to 4, and the benefits of the second option are way bigger.

- Elia

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